Regarding my thoughts on the Doha debates, Muslim women’s right to marry whomever they wish, Sh. Yasir Qadhi, hafidhahu Allah, was the only panelist who displayed a professional and intellectual discussion on the topic, away from the “my personal opinion” “my experience..” “my concern” and “I believe so..” kind of approach that highlighted the other guests presentations. There is no doubt the motion was too broad and too vague, and perhaps it was purposely made so to serve the goal of controversy, and it did.
The Debaters
On Asra Nomani
1.If Thurayyah al-Aridi appeared to be the “mother knows best” advocate, then Asra Nomani came out wearing the mantel of the well-experienced sage and the wise who knows everything best.
2.She anticipated the theological argument underlining this issue and immediately tried to give the audience a taste of what the argument of sh. Yasir would look like.
3.She turns her face to the audience and pleas to them on emotional level, not intellectual. It was surprising to hear an academic, like Asra, in such an intellectual debate fabricates an argument in such fashion. It sounded completely pathetic and unprofessional.
4.Her argument was completely subjective to her own personal experience, an experience that sounded very disturbing. Being a victim of a failed cultural marriage does not give her an automatic authority to dictate to women how to decide on their own marriages. I believe the Qatari woman among the audience who was in support of the family consent in marriage spoke clearly against Asra’s argument.
5.Asra’s premise is that Muslim women do not enjoy happy marriages because they cannot choose, and if women have choice and they choose their husbands they will “most likely” be happy. Tim, the mod, attacked that premise right away based on the existing loveless marriages as a reality in the west. Disappointingly, I did not hear any intelligent response from her to that particular point raised by the moderator. Maybe because there weren’t any.
6.I might even ask Asra a question: What if women “choose” to delegate that right to their families and put confidence in them to help them find a good spouse, would that be a problem? If Muslim women have the choice, and they do have the choice, to exercise their Islamic right and take their parent’s consent to their choice for a husband, what wrong would be with that?
7.I tried to look up the current marital status of Asra, to see if she found the man of her choice who would guarantee her “responsible” happiness but I could not find that in her bio. In fact, what I found was astonishing. It seems that she is advocating to other women what never worked for her.
8.All agree that forcing women into marriage does exist in reality but as a cultural arrangement, which is completely irrelevant to the motion suggested. The motion speaks about Muslim women, whom we assume abide by the laws of Islam in their personal lives, not by culture. If culture was the target, then Africa, South and Central America as well as other areas in the world, where forced marriages take place, should also be included in the discussion.
9.Every time Asra was answering a difficult question, she turned to the audience, not the panelists, and started the same emotional guilt filled response, such as “I’m a mother…” “I don’t want you to go through this…” just for an example. After all it seems that mothers always know best.
On Sh. Yasir Qadhi
1.I liked the suit with the blue tie sheikh. I was just wondering, how long would it take ‘me’ if I’d ever try, to tie a tie? I have not done that since high school and I don’t know how easy is that comparing to fixing a “Shimagh”. (Shimagh, for those who don’t know, is the traditional Arab head cover worn in the gulf).
2.Jazaka’Allahu khayran for speaking to the minds of the audience not just their hearts, and for making your case straight to the point without beating around the bush. I find your thoughts showing respect to the intellect of those who watched and listened. I guess you prepared well for it.
3.The level of academic discussion over some of the technical aspects of the subject, such as the juristic part was not clear enough to the masses. Obviously, the time constraints you were operating in would not allow further clarification. I assume that part disconnected you from the audience. Nevertheless, it was well done.
4.When asked by the moderator about Muslim women in a happy marriage with a non-Muslim man, I thought identifying the issue as a sinful act in Islam would have been sufficient unless it is done out of sheer rebellion to the law of Islam. In that case, I agree people should not identify themselves with Islam at all.
On Dr. Mohammad al-Habashi
1.There isn’t much really to critique in his presentation, because I couldn’t really follow his argument very well and at some point, I even wondered if he really knew what he was talking about. I just couldn’t understand what the base of the panelist selection to this debate was. Nevertheless, I guess sh. Yasir took care of that one easily.
2.His argument did not go in line with Asra’s arguments and I was even wondering if Asra Nomani would agree to the arguments he was making. His arguments appeared to set further restrictions on women’s choice anyways.
On Thurayyah al-Aridi
1.Unless she considered herself from “al qawaa’ed minal nisaa’” –women of post menstrual age- I think she lost her credibility to talk on behalf of Muslim women when she appeared in front of everybody without the proper hijab. Some girls who asked questions wore better hijab than she did. I thought it was perplexing scene.
2.Her starting point, speaking as a person not as an expert, weakened her argument as much as it did to sh. Yasir’s as well. No one in the audience, I believe, came to listen to personal thoughts or feelings about the motion. They came to vote on an issue that required rational discussion.
3.Her argument that young ones usually judge by physical look sounded very poor and based on my personal involvement in this area, I have to disagree with her. The attraction might happen the way she suggested and that is normal and natural, but the decision of marriage is more complex than she tried to explain.
The debate in general
On choice and education
In this discussion, two issues were raised leaving us to assume that they provide happiness for Muslim women in marriage; one is the right to choose and second is their current level of education.
There is no doubt that the choice to say yes or no for a prospect was guaranteed for women by the Shari’ah. Tradition and culture on the other hand distorted this principle, and the written law and the practice of some Muslim jurists following that regional tradition have contributed further to this crisis.
Now to claim that the right to choose would bring happiness to marriage is far from being true. The dynamics of marriage are more complex than just choosing the spouse, and what matters in marriage is not just the choice itself, but the mechanism of marital life the couple choose afterwards. Advocating for women’s right to choose their husbands has already being warranted in Shari’ah, and the call for it in this debate was mere reiteration of old feminist talk not to support or oppose a juristic ruling.
Claiming that women live miserably in arranged marriages is true to certain extent, but this is right for both men and women. However, and for fairness here for every miserable couple in an arranged marriage, I can bring another couple or more who are happy in their marital life. Furthermore, there is no doubt that statistics of divorce in the west regardless of religion, prove that choice is not enough to create a happy marriage. In traditional societies, men and women alike might waive their right of deciding on a prospect to their families, and this is their right as well, and even today there are so many highly educated people who are still following that same old tradition.
This issue of choice is being raised in this time because we believe women today have better education. This implies that the more educated the individual is, the better the choice would be, but statistics of marriage and divorce speak differently.
Many people mix between education and certification, what people get at the end of their academic career is nothing more than certification in a specific area of study. Education is the value and training the individual retains from this long process of certification. In my field of marriage training, I can testify for that easily.
There are so many young men and women who are highly educated, certified per say, but they lack the basic knowledge they need to become eligible for a happy marriage. The education they pursue in life might not even be of any value to their marital life, it only brings them personal value and self-esteem. Some admit that and some do not want to admit, they rather live in a happy state of denial. Good for them.
When it comes to marriage, those who admit their weakness in this area come and seek guidance from the least educated person in the family or circle of friends; in many cases, it is the mother. Hands down for most mothers who know how to go about these issues, after all many of them have gone through this when they themselves got married. But mothers cannot guarantee happiness in marriage for their children. What they can do is help them with their choice on basis of preconceived notions of happiness founded on “their” culture and tradition. Therefore, education does not translate into happiness, nor does choice.
Marriage is like any other field in life, requires learning and training. The social network that once provided young men and women a blue print or a road map for marriage does not exist in many cases of marriage today. The family network that once provided men and women the practical marital life to copy from is no longer available for so many. In the past families, even here in the west, were more connected, and young ones grew up watching their parents, siblings, uncles, cousins and others marry and live their lives. They used to copy them and paste these models in their own life, that is how life went by. Today, young men and women spend more time with their friends, who are single of course, than they would do with married relatives or friends. Most young men and women stop associating with the larger family network once they hit high school. Until after graduation from college, most of their social networks consist of single friends and most of their life revolves around single life. That’s why fearing to lose freedom of single life is one common reason for singles to delay their marriages. The value of social life diminished to minimum.
One category of Muslims in the west that would most likely, not have these biases when it comes to choice and marriage, is converts or reverts. Whether because their family has already given them this choice in life, or family ties already severed, our revert brothers and sisters do not have this problem of choice. However, they still suffer from other biases in marriage than just the concept of choice itself.
On the vote itself
Not surprisingly, the vote came out in favor of the motion by two thirds. Of course, we all realize that this is not a scientific result because the conditions of this vote were not right to begin with. Even new votes on larger scales, such as the one from women in the Arab world, proved it wrong.
First of all, the motion was broad in its definition of choice and it was hard to determine from the discussion if the panelists agreed on one meaning for it or not. Even though most of the discussion was geared towards Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men, the vote still requested a conclusion on that broad meaning of choice. People were voting on different definitions, not one.
Furthermore, the audience was a mixture of both Muslims and non-Muslims and if Muslims themselves might not have the proper religious, juristic and theological education to understand the subject discussed, how do we expect the non-Muslim audience to understand it from that Islamic perspective and then to vote against it? This is just like suggesting the same audience to vote on the rule of celibacy for Catholic priests. Can you guess the result?
Probably more than 15 percent of the audience was already decided. And if we take this percentage, if not even more, out of the vote the result will be close to 50/50 if not even against the motion.
To solve this technical issue, maybe casting a vote at the beginning of the debate and then one after might give an idea for which side presented a stronger argument. Without it, there would be no way to identify how many people have understood the discussion thoroughly and then made a qualified and educated vote.
On Asra Nomani and her case, her thoughts are too western and from an American perspective which does not take into consideration of the sociological practices and cultures of the world. Her case is biased. For her and those who submit to her cause, I would say this.
There are several arranged marriages that are practiced in the Muslim and Non-Muslim world and are 100% successful. The universal definition of forced marriages and arranged marriages is not the definition that Islam has in place. In Islam, no one can be forced to marry whomsoever they do not wish to be with. This is Islam. Parents can suggest and refer to a person whom they think would be suitable for their son or daughter, however, the final decision lies with the son or daughter of both families. Parents cannot pressure their son/daughter into a marriage either. Anything other than that is NOT Islam and anyone who wished to change that is creating their own religion which is NOT ISLAM. There are several cultures, especially in India which I have witnessed myself that use and practice the universal definition of forced and arranged marriages. Some marriages are successful while others aren’t. My point is that in Islam, if a marriage weren’t to work out while a person followed the Islamic rulings, then such a marriage was meant to end in divorce and that would not be the fault of the individuals. However, if a person were to marry outside the rulings of Islam and it ended in divorced, then such a marriage and person would be at fault for not following the guidelines of Islam. And if a person married outside the guidelines of Islam (i.e. Muslim woman marrying non-Muslim man, Muslim man marrying an atheist, etc.) and their marriage was successful, then they would be sinful for disobeying the laws of God and their punishment would be with God on the Day of Judgment , for those who believe in the Day of Judgment. Now, arranged marriages in Islam is a perfectly normal thing and accepted and preferred practice of practicing Muslim men and women, young and old all across the western and eastern world. We do not see a problem with it so long as the guidelines are followed. Why then do you make a problem of it in the name of freedom when we Muslim women did not question or feel as though we were not free? You yourself do not even practice real Islam. How can you judge a book by its cover?
As a Muslim Indian woman born in Germany, who later grew up in NJ, USA, having the opportunity to travel the world, I rediscovered the true Islam during my teenage years after having lived a life of the traditional Indian American culture that would have led me to the hell fire. I now stand clear and say that Islam is perfect. Islam does not need to be reformed. The religion of God was already reformed when Islam came to the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.. As a woman, I do not need to wear the pants in order to prove to people that I can be as successful and powerful as a man. The very fact that I am a practicing Muslim woman makes me free and makes me powerful. I do not need to conform into the western culture just to fit in. I have a culture of my own and that culture is the guidelines of the Quran and the Sunnah. That is my heritage. That is my culture. That is my pride which dates back all the way to the time of Prophet Adam Alaisalam. So don’t label my Muslim men and women as backward just because they CHOOSE not to dress the western way or live the western lifestyle. Don’t label us just because we choose to marry someone with the same traditional values for which we hold dear. The very fact that I am living in this present century makes me modern. And this is what we consider and call normal. And we are happy to be as we are as one Ummah.
Jazakillahu khayran sister Zara for your enthusiasm.
MashaaAllah, Shaykh Yasir’s argument was so logical and appeals to one’s critical thinking. Very simple, very easy to understand, and very much based on fact and law. The ironic part is that Asra Nomani begins her talk by stating that Islam encourages critial thinking and then she goes on with her argument from a completely emotional and illogical manner. No critical thinking whatsoever. She is essentially saying a woman should have the right to chose her marriage partner. Last time I checked, Muslim women were the first women that were allowed to chose their marrige partners. So, what’s the problem? Does this partner HAVE to be outside the confines of Islamic law to make her feel like this marriage will be a marriage with love?? Her argument made no sense.
In fact, a non Muslim Colleague at my job came up to me at work and brought me a magazine (Marie Claire) and showed me an article called “My Big Fat Muslim Wedding”. It was written by none other than Asra Nomani. My friend’s comment on the article was, “What does her personal experience have to do with Islam? This article is confusing”. She wanted to know my opinion. The entire article was about Asra’s personal experience and the logic was completely flawed. None of her points were deduced in a manner that made ANY sense. Subhan Allah , it was like saying 1 + 1 = 5. And that was clear to my non Muslim colleague right away. It was offensive that Mrs. Nomani would even use the word “Muslim” in her title.
Jazak Allah Khair, Shaykh Yaser for your commentary on this debate.
Jazakum Allahu kahyran for sharing this personal experience with your co-worker. I’m sure she was reacting based on her sound Fitra in that sense of course. And yes, those who claim Islam as their deen and practice should identify themselves with that which Islam teaches, not with what they invent in their own mind.
Yaser
oh and by the way, Asra Nomani says in her article that she is marrying/married to a Non Muslim. Seems like this debate is just to serve her own purposes.
And did Habashi really say it’s ok for a Muslim woman to marry a Christian or Jewish Man??
I like what the girl who asked the question said , what good is it to marry someone you love if you end up losing your family. I’ll take it a step furthur. What good is it to marry someone you love if you end up losing yourself and your relationship with Allah? Do you love this person more than Allah?
I really couldn’t make anything of Habashi’s argument in regard to women marrying non-Muslims. He claims if a non-Muslim man believes and then said respects the Prophet Muhammad salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam then it is permissible for a non-Muslim woman to marry him. I have never seen such interpretation presented before in any legitimate book of Fiqh. Besides, if a man believes in the Prophet, assuming he already believed in “God”, he then becomes a Muslim.
Yaser